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Ambassador Liu Xiaoming has an online discussion with the British Chamber of Commerce in China

From Chinese Embassy in UK

2020/03/29

On March 24th, Ambassador Liu Xiaoming had an online discussion with St. John Moore, Chairman of the British Chamber of Commerce in China, to exchange views on a wide range of issues including joint response to Covid-19 outbreak and Sino-British economic and trade cooperation. More than 430 representatives from British companies in China, Chinese businesses in the UK, third-party agencies and other stake holders from both countries attended the webinar.

St. John Moore: Welcome everybody. Thank you for joining us on our latest webcast. We are honored to have Ambassador Liu with us. For myself, I'm the Chairman of the British Chamber of Commerce based in Beijing. Ambassador Liu is in London. We are brought together by the wonders of technology. I currently serve as the Chair of Chamber based in Beijing overseeing the Chamber.

Ambassador Liu, It is an absolute honor to have you here. We have people dial in across China. We have members dial in from across the UK and far beyond. This is part of the series of webinars we have been running since Chinese New Year when we entered the lockdown period in response to the Covid-19. We have been running these webinars with key figures in the UK-China relationship.

For those who are less familiar with Ambassador Liu, let me start by saying a few words. I think for most people, you need no introduction because you have been the key figures in the UK-China relationship for the last ten years entering the 11th year. Ambassador Liu has a phenomenal career in the diplomatic service since graduating from Dalian University of Foreign Languages, including postings in four continents, including Zambia, multiple positions in the United States, Egypt, where you serves as the Ambassador, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea again as the Ambassador, and now since 2009, the Ambassador to the UK. Safe to say that Ambassador Liu has been an integral figure at the heart of our bilateral relationship for the last 11 years now. I could think of few more knowledgeable to join us today to talk about China-UK relations. Thank you, Ambassador Liu.

Ambassador Liu: My pleasure.

St. John Moore: Before we jump into questions that we have, I'd like to say a few more words. The British business community has a long history here in China. The Chamber is now nearly 40 years old. So we have been here through the "opening up and reform" period. We've continued this commitment over the past few months as China responded to Covid-19. Our hearts and minds have gone out to those having been impacted by the Covid-19 across China. The strong response taken by the government has been decisive.

Sitting here in Beijing in the early days of spring, I see the first shoots coming through of recovery. And I can see this first hand as I go around the city and into parks, with the resolve that is coming through in the city. But now, when we set up this call to go into the diary a couple of weeks ago, a lot have changed. We now sit here from Beijing with great concern as the world responds. And this includes home in the UK. So once again, thank you. And I thought that may be a good starting point, Ambassador Liu, if I can jump into questions.

Ambassador Liu: I appreciate this opportunity to communicate with your members. I know the British Chamber of Commerce in China has been playing a very important role in promoting China UK relations, especially the economic and trade relationship. I'm pleased to learn that you are going to celebrate your 40th anniversary. So I'd like to give you my congratulations in advance. And so that means your chamber has been growing with China, with the reform and opening up.

We are in a very challenging time, as you put it. We have to take extreme and challenging measures. I'm very pleased that the top leaders of our two countries maintain very active and intensive communications. Just yesterday, President Xi Jinping had another phone conversation with Prime Minister Johnson. This is their second telephone conversation within one month. That was very rare even in my 10-year Ambassadorship in London to see such an intensive communication between the leaders. It's also good for you to notice, the first conversation was more about the British side expressing sympathy and support towards Chinese side. That was on the 18th of February. Now President Xi Jinping conveys his sympathy and support to the UK and expresses our solidarity with British people fighting against this virus. We are pleased that things are improving in China, but we haven't won the final battle yet. But we have the confidence in the strong leadership of President Xi and in the Chinese people who are united as one.

This virus is spreading fast, and especially the situation in the UK is worrying. We are standing with the British people, as President Xi said, and we are also standing ready to offer assistance and support, as the British side did a month ago. So China and the UK are standing together. I firmly believe that the relationship between our two countries will emerge stronger, and the friendship between our two peoples will emerge deeper, after we win this battle against the virus.

St. John Moore: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. It is clear that this is the battle in the first phase in China. We are seeing positive signs there. And as you noted, the reports over the past week or so have indicated that in Hubei, we're seeing very low, if not zero, rates of infection. It's an important victory in that regard.

Yet, as we are saying, the UK as well as many other places is now feeling this. And you spoke a little bit about this cooperation. And indeed the call last night between President Xi and Prime Minister Johnson is a great representation of cooperation. Can you speak a little bit more about those cooperative efforts and how the learning of the last two months that we in China have experienced -- how has that been shared to the UK for the moment?

Ambassador Liu: I would say the collaboration in China and the UK in this battle against the virus is multi-fold.

Firstly, the communications of policy coordination at the top level. We have top leaders of the two countries keeping very intensive communications. And there are also close communications at the ministerial level. State Counselor, Foreign Minister Wang Yi, had talked to Secretary Raab two times, and Yang Jiechi, the Director of the Office of Central Foreign Affairs Commission, talked to Mark Sedwill, the National Security Adviser to the Prime Minister. So at the top level, we have this very close communications.

Secondly, we also share experiences, as you said, with the British side here in the UK. I kept very close contact with Secretary for Health and Secretary for International Development. I share the newest edition of the Diagnosis and Treatment Protocol and China's experience of coping with the virus with the British Government. And our experts, doctors, share their experience through internet. Just a few days ago, the Chinese side hosted a webinar with 18 European countries. British scientists, experts, specialists and doctors attended and asked lots of questions. I was told that 80 questions were asked and the Chinese doctors were open and tried their very best to answer all these questions.

Thirdly, we also have this collaboration on vaccine, on drugs to cure this disease, and the collaboration between the scientific institutions and colleges. Here on the British side, Oxford, Imperial College, Cambridge, and on the Chinese side, there are several universities and scientific institutions. We encourage businesses to play an important part in the collaboration. I met the global CEO of GSK who told me they are working with their counterparts in Sichuan on vaccine development. President Xi and Prime Minister Johnson expressed their support for the collaboration between our two sides, and especially between the scientists working on the vaccine.

Fourthly, we also supported each other at critical moments. When China was fighting the virus, especially when we had this lockdown in Wuhan, the British side donated two shipments of medical supplies, which were badly needed. Now the Chinese side stands ready to send assistance to the British people. We are also sending one or two medical teams to the UK, consisting of doctors and scientists. They will be here to share their knowledge, share their experience, on how to kill the virus. So there are a lot of things going on here.

Fifthly, China and the UK are collaborating in the global arena. Both China and the UK are countries of global influence. We're both permanent members of UN Security Council, and we are also members of the G20. President Xi and Prime Minister Johnson both expressed willingness to strengthen our collaboration in the framework of the UN and the G20, and provide leadership. At this important moment, we have to do more to strengthen multilateralism against unilateralism. And we need to show that we are one community, and China and the UK are working together to build a community with a shared future for mankind.

St. John Moore:That is very positive to hear this and also about the shared responsibility in both to respond to this. As you can probably appreciate, being a Business Chamber here, the community is greatly concerned about the business impact. As I know we all are as we look at the economic consequence this is having in China, but now it ripples around the world.

During the response in China, the business environment has been significantly impacted. This includes many British businesses that operate there, many locally established British businesses. They are going to ask you around this aspect. The British chamber has ran multiple surveys of its members since coming back from the Chinese New Year to really understand what is the real impact to members across the country. It is very real.

I'd like to ask you about what the government is doing to support these businesses right now. These businesses are the backbone of the economy. They are delivering for citizens, including foreign business community here, and particularly British business communities. Can you share a little bit about what is available to support and what the government is doing?

Ambassador Liu: Yeah. I quite understand the concerns of some businesses with regard to the future of trade and investment. Some are concerned about the prospect of China-UK economic relations. I also understand the negative impact on the economy in general, but I always believe, and I'm not just talking to you, but also talking to the business community here, that this negative impact is short term and temporary.

Firstly, I would say, as you can see, this virus is controllable, curable and preventable as a result of China's efforts and I also believe that it will be true worldwide. So the economy will come back.

Secondly, I think the fundamentals of China's economy are still strong. You can see for yourself the short term impact. But in the long term, the economy is still healthy and sound.

Thirdly, the Chinese government is very much determined to restore production, to provide stimulus and impetus to the recovery of the economy. President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang said on many occasions, that we will get back to work as soon as possible. They both emphasized we are fighting two battles: one battle against the virus and the other battle is to resume production. Premier Li has laid out 6 main policies, which we called "six stabilizing methods". I guess you probably have all been informed. I do not need to go into the details of the six policies. Basically, they call for more relaxation of the restrictions, to open up wider, to shorten the negative list, and to give more benefits to the businesses, and loan credit and tax rebates for the export businesses.

You know, since the beginning of this year, the foreign investment law has come into effect. And we are going to implement this law. Also, there are more favorable policies with regard to the financial sector and service sectors where British businesses are strong. And I am very optimistic about it. When it comes to China-UK business relations, the leaders of the two countries are very supportive for collaborations. Now the UK is leaving the EU and anxious to reach new arrangements with its main trading partners. We are ready for discussions on Free Trade Agreement. We are open and transparent. We even set a time table, a roadmap, which I presented to the senior officials of the Foreign Office. I look forward to meeting the Secretary of State for International Trade, and my counterparts. My colleagues in Beijing are also talking to your Ambassador about this.

People are now reducing face-to-face meetings, but I still conduct my diplomacy face to face. After I heard what the Prime Minister said yesterday, we are going to do more online discussions. But we are very active and we encourage Chinese businesses to come here to the UK. Just few weeks ago, during the high time of this epidemic, I went to Scuthorpe to attend the Hebei Jingye acquisition of British Steel, together with the BEIS Secretary. I delivered a very upbeat speech to encourage the businesses of the two countries to work harder. This is a very good agreement. Jingye is going to invest 1.2 billion GBP, not only saving 3200 jobs, but also trying to transform and to upgrade British Steel. What is more, the deal gives people confidence. I regard it as a vote of confidence not only in British economy but also in China-UK collaborations in the next ten years.

We have good news, though we are fighting against the virus. We, of course, expect more good news.

And also, Huawei. The British decision is a good decision. Maybe this is a question you are going to ask. I just jumped into your subject. We welcome this decision by the British government, though we are not 100 percent satisfied, because it also imposes a 35 percent cap. We don't think it is in conformity with British free trade, business friendly environment, but on the whole, we know it is not an easy decision, and it is conducive to collaboration between our two countries in 5G. We know Huawei is a good company, a leader in 5G. I wrote many articles about this. I think they can be a great help to the Prime Minister to realize his ambitious plan to provide whole coverage of 5G in the UK by 2025.

I think I need to stop here and listen to your questions. You know there is a lot to talk about when it comes to China-UK relationship. There are robust relations between our two countries. One thing I want to mention is that our economies are complementary to each other. That's the strength of our economy. There is great potential for cooperation. The UK is strong in services and finance, and China is very strong in manufacturing and has a huge market. It provides great opportunities and potential. So I feel very confident.

And this year, if it were not for this virus, is a very important year for China-UK relations. This is the first year after Britain leaves the EU. This is the year when China is going to achieve its first centenary goal, to build a moderately prosperous society in all aspects and we will eliminate absolute poverty. This is another area, poverty reduction, where China and UK can work together. I was working with the City of London and British businesses on these projects. And you know even on health, when we are fighting the battle against the virus, China and the UK can strengthen our collaboration. The UK is a leader in medicine and vaccine, and China has frontline doctors' experiences. We can cooperate on this vaccine to contribute to global health security. The UK donated about 90 million pounds to the WHO, and we also donated about 20 million US dollars to support the WHO to work together on this very important task.

St. John Moore: Ambassador Liu, You are right. You already addressed brilliantly many questions on my list to ask you. I would like to go back. This is the question that we received multiple times. You spoke about the six steps the Chinese leaders took to support the economy, to get ourselves back and working in your country. Are these measures equally available to British investors that are on the ground here? Is that an equal platform for everybody?

Ambassador Liu: That is a very good question. Yes. The six measures are applicable to both domestic and foreign businesses. This is what we call national treatment. You can find out more details from the Embassy's Economic and Commercial Office and the Ministry of Commerce of China, and get answers for you specific questions. All businesses are treated as equal in China.

St. John Moore: That's certainly what we strive for. You've also covered another very important point that last night President Xi and Prime Minister Boris Johnson spoke by phone. And this is the second time in only a matter of a month. You spoke about the differences between the two conversations, one being about UK's concern about China, and now China's concern about the UK. Let's focus on the first call. During that call, President Xi spoke about the future of the "Golden Era". In fact the conversation was about the development of the "Golden Era". I just wonder if you could elaborate on that era. Is that a critical step after the last five years? Does China really strives for this "Golden Era" concept? What will we see when we past COVID-19, what is the future of the Golden Era?

Ambassador Liu: We are still committed to this "Golden Era". When I said this is a very important year for China-UK relationship, I should also say this is the fifth year of the "Golden Era" started by President Xi's state visit to the UK. The relationship in the "Golden Era" is a cross-board relationship.

We have very strong political relationship. At the very top, the leaders of our two countries maintain close and intensive communication. They've never met each other. People would describe it as a get-to-know-each other conversation. But it covered a lot of areas and they've become old friends at the end of the conversation. So I feel very heartened and encouraged by their first conversation.

President Xi also proposed that we should strengthen the interaction and exchange visits at the very top. It has been 5 years since President Xi's visit to the UK and it has been 6 years since the Chinese Premier's visit. They are supposed to meet on a yearly basis, but because of Brexit, there were many opportunities missed. So we need to catch up and seize the opportunities. Prime Minister Johnson has been to China three times as Mayor of London, and he also expressed his wish to visit China soon, when he has Brexit done. Now I would say, when we have the battle won, we expect him to visit China and have face-to-face meetings with the top leaders.

And also economically, we have very robust relationship. As I said, our economies are very complimentary to each other. There is great potential for collaboration across the board. Last year, we have made new record in trade sector, despite the downturn of world economy. We have 7% of increase of trade between China and the UK. In the first year I was here, our trade was 40 million USD. In my ten years' time, our trade doubled. I can't claim all the credit. I give the credit all to you. So that shows how robust and how strong this relationship is.

In terms of investment, the UK is now the No.1 destination for Chinese investment in Europe. Chinese investment in the past five years is more than the total in the previous 30 years combined. So I'm really witnessing the growth of economic and trade relations between our two countries.

In the financial sector, last year we launched the Shanghai-London stock exchange. That was historic, and there are so many "firsts" between China and the UK. The UK became the first Western country to join the AIIB; the first Western country to issue RMB sovereign bond; London is now the No. 1 offshore RMB market, and second RMB clearance center in the world. So we've seen lots of things going on. Since I became the Chinese Ambassador, I have attended dozens of launching ceremonies of Chinese businesses here, including all Chinese commercial banks opening up their branches here, except for one, and that was Bank of China, because the Bank of China branch was opened in 1929, long before I was born. They just celebrated their 90th birthday last year.

We also have some big projects, like Hinckley Point C, and we were working on the phase 4 of Hualong technology. We also have Geely, doing very well with British taxis cars, and also Beijing Construction Company doing very well in the Manchester airport project. We are encouraging more businesses to come to the UK, because most businesses regard the UK as a country that has a more open, transparent and business-friendly environment.

So I think Huawei is very important, I always want to talk to British government officials that you have to send a strong positive message, not only to the world, but also to Chinese businesses, that is, Britain welcomes foreign businesses, including Chinese investment. That is exactly the message Prime Minister Johnson told President Xi in their first conversation. They covered a lot of areas, they covered big projects, they covered financial service collaboration, they covered the Belt and Road Initiative, and Prime Minister Johnson said "we welcome Chinese businesses with open arms".

St. John Moore: Ambassador, that is of course the backbone of Britain, which is a philosophy of openness to investment, and you captured that perfectly.

Ambassador Liu: One more area I should mention, and that is people-to-people exchange. That was started in 2012, between China and the UK. You call it Summit, we call it annual meeting between the Premiers, it's an annual meeting at the top of the government.

Then we have three mechanisms: Economic and Financial Dialogue, co-chaired by Chinese Vice Premier and the Chancellor Exchequer of UK; strategic dialogue, co-chaired by Chinese State Councellor and UK Foreign Secretary; and high-level people-to-people dialogue. The last one was very important. It's cross-board, about education, health, sports and media. Right now there are about 220,000 Chinese studying in the UK. The UK is the largest recipient of Chinese students, second only to the United States. They are studying in 154 British universities. Included in these 220,000 students are 15,000 young pupils. They are here in boarding schools. So it's a very robust relationship on education.

Every year there are hundreds of Chinese art groups visiting Edinburgh for festivals of art, and also, the flights between our two counties are increasing. If it were not for this epidemic, every week there would be about 168 flights linking our two countries. I'm sorry to say it's been reduced to 23 now, but I think it will come back. Some of the airline CEOs I have met are planning more flights linking the two countries in June and July, so I feel very optimistic about the future of our relationship.

St. John Moore: I of course sit here with similar optimism. You touched on a very interesting point that I'd like to come back to, because it's of course a privilege to sit here with you. As someone who has been at the heart of the relationship for ten years, going into its eleventh year, you highlighted all of the amazing firsts in the relationship. Maybe there is no answer to this question because it's all perfect, but I wonder if you reflect back on the ten or eleven years in this role, are there missed opportunities in this relationship beyond what has happened during Brexit with many attention focused on that, are there missed opportunities that bilateral relationships should focus upon, next year or the year after?

Ambassador Liu: I would say relationship is not free of problems, but we fully understand that we have to face up to these problems. China and UK have many common interests, but we also differ in many things, in social systems, historic heritage, cultural traditions, even stage of development. You are a developed country, we are a developing country. It's natural that sometimes we have differences, but one import thing is how to approach these differences. Talking about the first conversation, President Xi said we need to respect each other, we need to respect the core interests and mutual concerns of each other. When we do this, our relationship will move forward; when we do not respect the core interests and mutual concerns, the relationship will run into difficulties. There are some sensitive issues between our two countries, like Tibet. We regards Tibet as part of China, we regard Dalai Lama as leader of the separatists. If the British leaders, especially the top leader, met with Dalai Lama, there was a problem. It means you do not respect our core interests, do not respect our sovereignty, integrity of our country, and sent out a wrong message to the outside world, that UK supporting the separatist leader.

And with regard to the South China Sea, we are working for peace and stability in the region. If you have foreign ships invade into China's territorial waters, it might be a problem. You challenge China's sovereignty, and you invade Chinese territorial waters.

And also on Hong Kong, it has been returned to China, it's part of China. We have "one country two systems" and we are committed to this formula. But if British politicians make irresponsible remarks interfering in our internal affairs of Hong Kong, still regarding HK under British colonial rule, there might be a problem.

Also on human rights, we are all working for the better human rights. The goal of the Chinese government is to enable Chinese people to live happier, longer, enjoying much more freedom. But on the British side, you may have a different interpretation. With regard to democracy, I don't think there is a universal standard of democracy. Every country differs. British democracy is different from American democracy. If you look what is going on in the United States, many British friends have different views of American democracy. Here in China we are building democracy of Chinese socialistic characteristics.

We need to respect each other. When we have differences, we can have a frank, candid discussion. But we do not need to resort to microphone diplomacy, yelling at each other and calling the other side bad names. That will undermine the mutual trust between the two countries. So mutual trust, political trust and strategic trust, is the key. It is very important. So I think if we can respect each other, respect the core interests and mutual concerns on an equal basis, I do not see major problems between China and the UK. I think our relationship is very strong, strong enough to have a candid and frank discussion even on some difficult issues. But we need to approach those difficult issues with caution, with prudence, and with respect. That's the key. That's my advice to my British colleagues.

You talk about missed opportunities. We did missed some opportunities, because of the mishandling of these sensitive issues, and also because of Brexit. In the past 3 years, people in the UK had to focus on the Brexit. Some British friends said that we British people can do many things at one given time, but I don't think you can concentrate, sometimes, when something is distracting your attention. So I'm pleased now the Brexit is done, though you are still working with your European partners. I hope that after Brexit, we can tap the great potential between our two countries.

St. John Moore: Ambassador Liu, there's much I'd like to unpick in your reflections upon the past ten years. But I'm also conscious of time. Your point around mutual respect, dialogue and dialogue is critical through this, remains key. You highlighted a lot of positives, both for Chinese investments into the UK and the continued investments of British businesses into China. Once on the other side of COVID-19, we definitely want to work towards mutual benefit in that regards.

There are two other topics that I know that our members will be very interested in your perspectives. I will combine them together to see if you have some short remarks on those before we wrap up.

The first was with the impact that Covid-19 has had on other topics that also has mutual concern to our countries, Climate change is one example. Hopefully COVID-19 is resolved very soon and will not impact the meeting in Glasgow later this year for the COP26. The first question is around how are the two countries working together and what else can be done for climate change?

The second is also a question about the impact that COVID-19 is having on another important initiative, and this is the Belt and Road Initiative. The BRI is an important initiative British businesses have a significant interest in, and we can play a significant role in BRI. I'm curious of your perspectives on BRI and the impact that COVID-19 is having on the BRI plans.

Ambassador Liu: So first thing first. On climate change, I think both governments are very committed to working together on climate change. This year also provides a golden opportunity for China and the UK to work together. We will be hosting COP15, and you will be hosting COP26. Though the two conferences have their different mandates, they're very closely connected. I quite agree with Prime Minister Johnson when he launched COP26 he expressed his support for China hosting COP15. Though it's about biological diversity, it works for protection of the environment, wildlife, and to make the ocean and water cleaner and greener, and that in turn will have an impact on climate change. Improvement of the climate will also have an impact on the environment - water, ocean, mountain and wildlife. Therefore there is a linkage between the two, and I think China and the UK can work together to ensure the success of the two conferences. By doing that, it will not only strengthen the bilateral cooperation between China and the UK on environment and climate change, but also contribute to the global effort, to global endeavors. So China and the UK can provide leadership on this important agenda.

Of course, we hope the virus will be behind us by then. We will host COP15 in October in Kunming. Here in the UK, I am already talking to businesses, including the City of London. I talked to the Lord Mayor. They expressed their willingness to participate in COP15 and COP26 and to see what contributions British businesses can make to this important agenda.

On the BRI, I think there is opportunity and potential for cooperation between the two sides. Last year, during the 10thEFD we signed the agreement on collaboration in third market. And, I think this is an area where China and the UK can dovetail our strategies and match our strengths. I quite agree with the former Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond when he said that UK was a natural partner for China in building the Belt and Road Initiative. I think UK is very strong in service, in finance, even in law, and in risk management, project management, and China is strong in building infrastructure and China has the capital. I think our two countries can work together on this project.

And now in fighting against this Virus we have another agenda we can build a "health silk road". I know you speak good Chinese. When I was on Andrew Marr Show, I tried to share with him what "Weiji"(the Chinese word for "crisis") is about. You know when Chinese people talk about "Weiji" we are thinking about opportunities. First we believe that there are opportunities in crisis and that we can turn crisis into opportunities. I think this pandemic is very worrying but also it provides us with opportunities to work together to build a better world, and to build a stronger Belt and Road Initiative.

St. John Moore: Ambassador Liu, I couldn't think of a better way to end than looking at the optimism and opportunity that is ahead of us. A large part of our conversation comes at the backdrop of COVID-19, and this is clearly the issue of the day. But it will be dealt with, and there will be a future that is brighter for all of us.

Once again, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a genuine privilege to speak with you. I'm speaking on behalf of all of our members across China, in the UK and elsewhere that this is genuinely important. Hopefully this is the first of many opportunities that we could hear directly from you to the British business community.

At the end of last year, the Chamber surveyed all our members across China, and that finds clear optimism amongst the British business community about doing business in China. Yes, there were concerns, and we have addressed those directly to the British government and your colleagues in the Chinese government, and we'll continue to do that. But there's underlying optimism. Clearly COVID-19 might impact a little bit, but the fundamentals, as you said before, still hold. That optimism is still underneath there. We are finalizing the British Chamber of Commerce's National Position Paper right now, and that will be launched very soon. I look forward to sharing it with you and your colleagues in the months ahead once it's finalized, and of course meeting and discussing in person when we are allowed to travel again.

Ambassador Liu: Certainly I look forward to reading your papers. I also want to take this opportunity to express my best wishes to your members, and also my hearty thanks to your members. At the early stage when China was fighting this Virus, many of your members showed sympathy and support to the Chinese people. They donated, as I understand, more than 100 million RMB. It will be remembered by the Chinese people and we appreciate that. It really shows the solidarity and strength of our relationship and I always believe that there is a great future for our relationship. And the British businesses have this entrepreneurship, they think long term, and they are always optimistic about the future. So that is the strength of the UK. That is the cultural DNA in UK, and it is also shared by China. We are nations that think long term, that think in the optimistic way. So I always believe there is a great future between our two countries.

St. John Moore: Thank you, Ambassador Liu.

Ambassador Liu: My pleasure. Thank you, too.

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